A Blonde A Brunette and a Mic
Look forward to time with these two women who have life experience and something to say! Join us each week as we dive into topics that may be raw, unfiltered, funny and even a little controversial. Whatever we discuss will give you our perspective, get you thinking and will keep you coming back for more!
A Blonde A Brunette and a Mic
Season 2 Episode 94 Teen Pregnancy, Open Adoption, and Empowerment Through Adversity
Facing an unplanned pregnancy as a teenager can feel like the end of the world, but Lia's journey through open adoption proves that resilience can lead to unexpected roads of empowerment and growth. Join us as Lia bravely shares her story, from grappling with the initial shock of discovering her pregnancy while her boyfriend was incarcerated, to making the courageous decision to choose open adoption for her child. We explore her unique approach to breaking the news to her father and the emotional rollercoaster of those early days, offering a glimpse into the challenges young women face at the crossroads of societal expectations and personal values.
Lia's story doesn't end with her decision; it evolves as she reflects on the bittersweet moment of handing her child over to adoptive parents and navigating the often-complex dynamics of maintaining a connection with her biological daughter. The episode provides a heartfelt account of the ongoing relationship with her daughter, now a teenager, and Lia's thoughtful approach to respecting her child's need for space while remaining open to future contact. This chapter of Lia's life is a testament to the nuanced emotions involved in adoption and the strength found in following a path aligned with one's beliefs, despite external pressures and expectations.
In the wake of the Roe v. Wade overturn, Lia's insights extend beyond her personal experience to a broader conversation about women's reproductive rights. By sharing her journey, we highlight the importance of personal stories in shaping dialogues around women's health and reproductive choices, fostering understanding and empathy for those navigating similar journeys. Lia's openness encourages us to reflect on societal changes over the years and the impact these shifts have on individual lives. Her narrative is not just about confronting the past but also about considering the future, as we aim to inspire compassionate discussions around reproductive health for generations to come.
Hey everybody. This is Michelle and this is Julie. Welcome to a blonde, a brunette and a mic podcast. What is our podcast all about you? Ask Well, we're two 50 something women with life experience and oh plenty to say, which is exactly what we're going to do right now Two giant cookies that you baked last night. They were healthy cookies, they were giant.
Speaker 2:I know I use like a ice cream scoop full of chocolate and they were so good. Well, I'm glad you liked them. Just slap them on your ass and think of me that's. That's well pretty much what you're gonna do much.
Speaker 1:what happened?
Speaker 2:Today we have a special guest. We have been really waiting to get on here and accommodating things like little girls. She has a little baby at home and full-time job and husband and everything. We finally got her here tonight and it's Leah hi, do those things really keep you busy, leah oh no, just you know wait wait, I have.
Speaker 1:I have a serious question. Which one keeps you busier, the husband or the child? Oh, oh, definitely the child.
Speaker 3:He's a millennial dad Not that he'd want to be called that, but he's really good with her.
Speaker 2:He's so good with her. Yeah, I see all the little things like he hosts. That's a legitimate question. Though it is a legit question. Yeah sometimes Now, if you were in our generation, it might be a little different. I've heard yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry Pretty much yeah.
Speaker 2:We we asked Leah to join us today because she had a really unique experience as a teenager and as we were. You know, we're going through a lot of things in our country right now, talking about women's health rights and reproductive rights and choice, and Leah has a story to share with us that we thought would be really interesting for people to hear and we're just really appreciative that you will share your story. So, with that in mind, we wanted to talk about a teen pregnancy that Leah had had and just all of the different things that had gone around that teen pregnancy and, of course, I was.
Speaker 2:I knew you and I was with you then, yeah so I know a lot of this story, but Michelle's kind of new to a little bit of it and and there's, you know, an outcome now, given that this little girl is a teenager, and there's been a lot that's happened since then, yeah, yeah, she's.
Speaker 3:You know. I remember going through my pregnancy for my daughter who I have now she's almost three and going through that pregnancy and people being like, oh, like doctors being, oh you, it's your second child, because you have to write that in your notes what number of pregnancy is? Like, oh, is your, is your older one excited to be a big sister, and I'm like, oh, no, no, like she doesn't live with us. I did open adoption so you know, medically have to mark that I have to have had two pregnancies, but like I don't consider myself as having two kids if that makes sense.
Speaker 3:I know it's kind of strange because it's like people, automatically will just assume that you do, and fair enough because it's not a normal story and it doesn't come up too often. But you know, it was an experience I had and pretty unique.
Speaker 2:You hear about well, we hear about that kind of stuff happening out in the world or happening even when we were you know, you're a at the age when all of this happened. You know what happened then was the person disappeared and went to boarding school or went to live with our aunt or you know. We just never knew what happened. It was very secretive and very hush hush and very shameful and there was a lot of stuff that went around that for that young lady whoever the young lady would be that was pretty awful. I think that the level of support and just how they were feeling about things and they took on the bulk of the responsibility, I don't think that would be really tough at any age, but certainly, you know, as a young girl, that would be really tough too. So why don't we start with kind of the timeframe and maybe just walk through a little bit about how old you were and everything from there?
Speaker 3:I think I was a senior in high school and my parents had gotten divorced and I was angsty. Anyway, oldest child you know I was obviously took care of my siblings a lot, but also like outside, of being kind of like helpful around the house. For the most part, you know, my mom and I didn't get along very well. I think we had a very I don't know symbiotic relationship. We benefited from knowing each other and living under the same roof, but we did not get along. And then my dad. He had had a heart attack and I used that as kind of an excuse to go and live with him and that didn't take the first time. So I pissed my mom off real good to where she took my van away and said if you know? She basically said if you don't get home by a certain time, can you're getting the van taken away from?
Speaker 3:you, which was my vehicle as a 17, 18 year old girl, and so I parked it in her front driveway and then I just I said All right, well, fuck you, I'm gonna go live with my dad. Now. That's exactly what you did, see, ya, and I did that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know you're angry and you're, you're young and you need someone to blame. And I picked my mom and yeah, okay, let's just be honest, you were that spitfire from a baby. I mean, this is kind of your personality from having grown up and so, knowing her mom and knowing her, I just kind of think it's hilarious Because you know, she got the pushback. She got similar pushback, you know, to a lot of other people, but she, you know, she held her ground with you and was always there for you. But but you know anyway for it, I know, I know.
Speaker 3:She kept consistent boundaries and rules.
Speaker 3:Oh dear she. Yeah, so I was pretty pissed off. I was doing Running Start, which is a program that we have in Washington to do two years of community college, somewhat in place of your last two years of high school. I had a boyfriend who was quite a bit older than me. You know he was 21, which that age difference is quite a bit when you're 18 years old. You know he was not my first boyfriend, but older than me he had his own apartment. It was kind of a nice refuge from, you know, my dad's house, and not that he was terrible to be around or anything, but you're young.
Speaker 1:You have a boyfriend. Did your parents approve of him? Um, no, okay. I mean, I had a feeling, but I was just curious.
Speaker 3:Definitely not. I him um, no, okay, I mean I I had a feeling, but I was just curious. Definitely not. I think it was kind of funny you guys get into astrology on your podcast ever a little bit. Uh, he has a really similar astrology to my dad and maybe some more similarities than any of us could see it in the moment looking back and I'm like shit. No wonder my dad hated him it. It was pretty similar to himself.
Speaker 1:Oh that's a good one, yeah, so yeah, ironically enough, my dad hated him.
Speaker 3:Oh, the best part was so, you know, dating this guy. You know he'd been in and out of trouble with the law, nothing like on a major scale, like wasn't stealing or anything, but like drinking and driving. And you know young boys going parties and doing whatever that was before I met him that he'd gotten into some trouble. I think he had let something lapse with whatever that was and he got arrested and went to jail Really cool to be the girl that has a boyfriend in jail, so classy Love that.
Speaker 1:So, proud.
Speaker 3:And while he's in jail, I find out I'm pregnant. Oh, oh wow okay um, I'm, I, yeah, not not a proud moment by any stretch of the imagination. So and he comes from a big catholic family, right yeah, I think he is the second oldest of like I don't know like five kids, I think all of. He has a bunch of sisters no brothers.
Speaker 1:What was that moment like for you, leah? Oh my gosh. I mean, aside from all the dynamics and looking back now, what that moment must've seemed like, but truly being in that moment. Was it scary, was it devastating, was it?
Speaker 3:like oh.
Speaker 1:Oh, MFG, Like what are we yeah?
Speaker 3:I remember the first pregnancy test test I took and I waited till my dad wasn't home, of course, and I took the pregnancy test and for anyone who's taken one, you know, sometimes there's a really faint second line and I was like I only saw the one solid blue line. I was like, okay, we're good, we're good. And then I something, I just kept going back to it and I was like, oh no, there's a second line and I was like, well, that might and your mind starts playing tricks, just like those damn COVID tests, like oh, no, I don't think, yeah, no, I don't have.
Speaker 3:COVID, but it finally hits me and yeah, I just sobbed uncontrollably.
Speaker 1:Were you alone, or did you have a friend with you?
Speaker 3:Purposely alone that first one. Yeah, I just didn't. You know, I wasn't really ready to admit it to myself, let alone anyone else.
Speaker 2:So were you in denial. I mean, how long did it take you to take the test?
Speaker 3:You know, I think I've never been like a super regimented person, so it's like you know. First, you know day of your my period. It's always oh, there's, there it is, and it had been a while, probably at least two months. You know somewhere in there, at least you know at least a month to miss it. And then yeah, we didn't have cell phone period trackers back in the day, and if they did, they were not super.
Speaker 2:And you were probably even thinking about doing that anyway, because that's what people do when they want to get pregnant.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Or just like keep track of your period, and I was just not a keep track of anything kind of person. Yeah definitely more type B in that, yeah, but yeah, I definitely remember like feeling like my period should have started by now and like being at school, at the community college, and just being like it should be starting right now, and it's almost like this phantom constipation.
Speaker 1:You're waiting for your period to start and it's just not.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Parts of you know but crying and crying and obviously probably a little bit of panic, I imagine.
Speaker 3:Absolute panic, absolute crying. Who was the first person you called? I had a friend who was actually my boyfriend's sister and that's how I had met him. I was her older brother and I remember getting another pregnancy test with her and just being like I already know that this is what it is, but like let's do another one, and just kind of being like, okay, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but this is weird and yeah, you just kind of start figuring it out. I think the next person I told was my dad, and so that was all really kind of unfolding in March and I remember it was the day before April Fool's Day.
Speaker 3:And I remember being like well, if I tell him on April 1, I can, and he gets really mad I can the day before April Fool's.
Speaker 1:Day.
Speaker 3:Oh man, I remember being like well, if I tell him on April 1st, I can, and he gets really mad, I can always just say April Fool's.
Speaker 1:You know like I, just you know I was just so, so, clever, so smart.
Speaker 3:That was my backup plan and I told him, like Dad, I've got to tell you something tomorrow. And it was like the last day of March, so stupid, like the last day of March, and I can't remember actually telling him. But the next clearest memory I have is going to bed and hearing him from the living room on the phone with my mom telling him the news, and I specifically had told him not to tell her. And so it was like betrayal, betrayal.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, he's probably freaking out going. What do I do? You know what do I do?
Speaker 3:yeah, when, when my mom retells the story, she very much feels like he was gloating that he knew, rather than like before her oh, because you told I don't know if that's true of my dad. I don't know him in the same light that she does, you know yeah, different experience, having gone through a divorce with someone versus them being your father. But I don't, I don't know, I couldn't tell either way.
Speaker 1:I just more felt like absolute betrayal in the moment how long after you took the pregnancy test, did you tell them or him?
Speaker 3:um, it was probably like maybe a week.
Speaker 1:I.
Speaker 3:I'm not really good at like not saying things about myself, yeah, if there's something to say. I have. It eats me up inside and I can't help myself.
Speaker 3:So I yeah, yeah all good, mm-hmm had to tell, um yeah, and then my mom and I were fighting and like the next clear memory that I have around that time is just like her coming in and doing her best to like make peace with me and then going to get a dress that would work throughout the rest of my pregnancy and she just was trying to make the time like special and fun. And she did a really good job of making it clear of like, whatever you want to do, like I got you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what was that like? How like did? Did having an abortion ever come to mind? Were you thinking no, no, like oh my gosh, because I suppose I don't know, but I would imagine people that do that maybe don't even tell their parents, right, yeah, you know, and just terminate, yeah.
Speaker 3:I come from a pretty strong Catholic family, you know, at least in the early years. It definitely dissipated over the years. Yeah, less so for my dad. So it's actually really funny he, of all the people not my mom, not me was the only one. Well, is it too late? For I don't know if it was plan b at the time, but I don't think they called it that, yet that morning after he was like is it?
Speaker 3:you know, why don't you just take those pills and get rid of it and he's like the most trumpy you know I don't know about to this day, but last we talked about politics it was in that vein and yeah, really interesting is, like some of the men in my life you know, the, the biological father and my dad, talk about like man, seeing what you went through in this beautiful life that came of it, it just makes me all the more like anti-abortion and I'm like, having gone through that experience, um, it makes me all the more pro-choice because I had supportive parents, which most girls, teenage girls who find out they're pregnant. Yeah, fucking right, fucking right.
Speaker 2:That's not going to be right. That's not going to be younger than you, if they're younger than you, I mean you were, like at the age of, you know, 18 years old, right right around that time frame. So I mean you were kind of closer to being an adult. But can you imagine being 15?
Speaker 1:Oh my God, Can you?
Speaker 2:or, and the parental support for you was. That was the one thing that I think you had. That was such a blessing that a lot of girls, like you said, don't have they don't have that or they're blamed, you know, for being loose or being, you know so what about the, the father like?
Speaker 1:how did that all play out? And, of course, I'm sure that it was a decision that was talked about with him, or not really.
Speaker 3:So I wrote him a letter while he was in jail, yeah, and I let him know I was pregnant and I had already in my head and heart resolved to the idea of adoption. That was something that came to me pretty early on. I remember my dad asked me and I didn't even form the thought in my head, the words just came out of my mouth for adoption. I was like oh, I guess that's what I'm doing, because that's what I just said.
Speaker 1:I like that.
Speaker 3:So I wrote him a letter while he was in jail the biological father, and he's excited. He's in jail, probably daydreaming about being a dad and having a family when he comes out, boy did I have news for? Him. I think we we finally figured out like the calling system for jail. It's just so trashy it's not really it's just, you know, these are not things yeah like you know, I'm putting it out there but it's not things that I well, I mean it's part, it's part of the experience.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean not you. Not many people have to deal with a calling system in jail Right.
Speaker 3:We figure it out and we finally talk on the phone and I definitely could feel I shattered some kind of vision that he had been, you know, daydreaming in his time there and I was like, yeah, I want to do adoption. You know, we explored all the options to gather like again, abortion really wasn't one that we explored. I was vegan at the time.
Speaker 3:So, you know, very, live and let live very like peace, love, whatever. I had a painted minivan before I left my mom's driveway, yeah, so just kind of very, very, that like do no harm kind of kind of a person, and so that just really never crossed my mind.
Speaker 2:Did he have any specific ideas that like so, for example, it's like it's your body right, it's your decision, but obviously he's the dad. I mean, no, you guys are not a married couple or together in that way. It's like did he feel like he had more say, or was he really just giving you the platform and being there to listen?
Speaker 3:Well, so we kind of explored our options together. He was going to the first appointments. He was out in time for that. He wasn't in for very long, but definitely long enough for that to be relevant.
Speaker 3:And him and my mom went to all of my appointments. There's like a my insurance at the time was group health and there was like a teen specific you know pregnancy clinic on Capitol Hill that we would go to the three of us, my mom and the biological father, and one of the resources that they had was, you know, you talk about nutrition, you talk to the doctor, and then one of the doctors I had said something about wanting to do adoption and she pulled out a pamphlet, or maybe a couple pamphlets, but only one really stood out and it was for open adoption. And so he and I had went to that first meeting with the people there together and you know he was pretty on board. I think I'm, I just like this is what I'm doing and you're on board and whatever and I could definitely tell that he was open to being a father and having a family together.
Speaker 3:Honey, you got out of jail, like no, like you don't have a job, yeah it's not, it's not a viable option, but definitely after we had kind of been well established down the open adoption path and like lots of counseling appointments for that he had brought up. You know, if you want to just go finish college and live your life and then you can come back to me and the baby when you're ready, and I think I pretended to entertain that idea, but it was like a hell.
Speaker 3:No, you know it was a very like yeah, sweetheart, that's not gonna happen. Yeah, I would never in my you know late teens have talked to a guy like that. But definitely, looking back on it, that's, that was the vibe, like yeah.
Speaker 1:What do you think? Obviously it's because of the nature of who you are. But you know, most 17, 18 year old girls really aren't that level headed to make that because you made the decision. It's not like your parents said, oh you really should think about, I'm sure they they maybe, after you said this is what I'm doing, they supported the idea. But to make that decision on your own, like what do you think? Because even if they had a boyfriend in jail who you know was open to being a father, a lot of girls would cling on to that idea and do that.
Speaker 2:So I'm just well maybe they didn't have like the support like you're talking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:A lot of sense, yeah, because that would be like the only person that would be supporting them.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Through all of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that family.
Speaker 2:Well, she's obviously very mature for her, the age that she was at to be able to kind of that's. That's what I'm saying is like what that?
Speaker 1:I guess that was. My question is what? What do you think made you steps ahead in that way to be able to make that decision?
Speaker 3:Looking back now, I remember having just a certain type of way about me that, looking back on, you know we all look back at our youth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ridiculous.
Speaker 3:And some of certain type of way about me that, looking back on, you know we all look back at our youth. Yeah, ridiculous and some of that ridiculousness is kind of necessary. Yeah, you know, looking back, I was like I was not ashamed. And I look, you know, as often as maybe I should be, in this new mindset that I have as like an adult, and like you know, I was like I never felt like I don't know. I never felt like I was that was the life that I'm supposed to have.
Speaker 1:Like I was like.
Speaker 3:Oh no, this is, this is not what we're doing Like I, it feels like kind of judgmental towards other people that yeah, that's the path they took and I just knew for me that wasn't how I wanted to start having a family.
Speaker 1:Like yeah.
Speaker 3:I had just come out of my family having a divorce and helping with my siblings, I never really had a lot of time to develop and forge my own path. I was just kind of and you know it maybe was more independent than most kids. My age and developed more of a path than most kids at that time would have, but I had a strong sense of no yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Strong sense of self. I mean yeah, and of self.
Speaker 2:It's very commendable. Yeah, well, the word shame came up. You said yeah, and that is the one thing that when I, when I really look at this whole topic, it takes two to tango right, but the women, the woman, the girl, or is usually the one that is kind of shouldering a lot of that responsibility and things. And I think that goes back to how our society views a lot of this stuff and the level of support that that person again receives. Because I think about this. You know, like in my home, what growing up it would have been a very different circumstance. You know, I would have been probably kicked out of my house. I probably would have been dealing with things very, very different than what you're. That the idea of abortion never was. I, never, we never talked about that kind of stuff. Now it's something that people put out there a lot more and it's something that you hear. Obviously we're hearing a lot more about, but that doesn't mean people are necessarily going that direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah the concern is if they, if they don't have the support, trying to accomplish terminating a pregnancy without help and get in hurting themselves or you know, or something like that. You know so the idea of shame. I think I am grateful for the fact that you did not possess that, that you were just like no, this is not what I envisioned for my life. You were very strong about that's not. Nor that's not what I say normal that's. You are very strong about that, that's not normal.
Speaker 1:That's not what I say. Normal that's not usual. Well, and a lot of things like no, this is not what I want for my life. I'm gonna go and continue to be this single, young, unmarried person and carry through having a baby, being pregnant, all the things and really just in my mind. I'm just thinking, obviously, you just had to hold your head high and journey through it and move forward. It was the decision you made and not really concern yourself with, maybe, what others were thinking. I don't know who others were.
Speaker 3:I mean I kept my job, so yeah there was people.
Speaker 3:There were people who had opinions, and it was always people who, I was surprised, had opinions like, oh, the main person who just had such an opinion about you know, the adoption process was wrong was a Christian woman. She was like, it's so sad that you have to do this. You don't get to raise your baby, and I'm just like I'm choosing not to raise this baby and I'm just like I'm choosing not to raise this baby and it's like and she even sent co workers to come to the hospital and remind me that I didn't have to go through with this if I didn't want to, and maybe on some level that was out of love and compassion, but it was just like, girl, do you know me? Like you don't know me, like that, I'm not asking for your opinion. And I had such an attitude and edge about it and you know my vantage point. Now I can see like maybe that came from more love than what it felt like at the time, because at the time it sounds like, it sounds like judgment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it sounds judgy, sounds very good, you're going through this pregnancy and you don't even get to keep the baby. I was like I'm going through this pregnancy, this human gets to go be a baby for somebody who wants a baby and I get to go not have a baby.
Speaker 3:Yeah, be young and have fun and yeah, I didn't want to establish my first decisions as an adult with such like a. It felt like such a beneath what I wanted to be and I didn't want to start a family with my boyfriend in jail and and then raise this baby in my mom's basement and then have not only that child's life be kind of like subpar but then any subsequent children, their life be starting kind of well behind the starting line for you know.
Speaker 2:And then how do you get ahead? I mean, I didn't see a way ahead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how do you?
Speaker 2:provide for this child in the future. I mean, there's a lot of factors that I think people don't really take into account. So seeing that kind of crystal ball view wasn't maybe such a bad thing.
Speaker 3:It looked like a path of a lot of struggle and it looked like a path of just nothing that I wanted yeah.
Speaker 1:So so you got the pamphlet for open adoption. And so what? What was that path?
Speaker 3:You know, sometimes things just click and make sense. So there's lots of counseling to just help you make sure that that makes sense for you to even pick a family to have the baby because you don't want to give anyone false hope.
Speaker 3:So they really do their due diligence and making sure that you've explored all your options. They give you worksheets to math out what it looks like to raise the baby on your own and, just like a lot of talk, therapy and the biological father and I. We went to all of these together, which was great, those would be really interesting exercises you know, like
Speaker 2:mapping out what this would look like to raise this child.
Speaker 1:Of course they don't do that with regular parents who are just like together and having a child, right. Right, it would have been nice, yeah, yeah, I mean really, you know, surprise anyway, yeah, anyway, anyway, go on surprise daycare's two thousand dollars a month yeah, yeah, and that's not even full-time, no, that's full time.
Speaker 2:Is that full time? Okay, we're full time now, anyway, the, the.
Speaker 3:so the process kind of went. Once we got to a certain point in the counseling it was like, okay, well, yeah, here's a stack of all these hopeful parents, oh, wow, and you look and you vet all of them. We split the pile of all these people and then I think we might have switched piles, or the biological father and I both picked our favorites and he remembered to bring his stack of favorites to the next appointment and I was like, oh, I shouldn't have written a list or brought the people that were my favorite. I said you know what, why don't you pull out the stack of people? And I'll be able to pull out the people who I remember picking, and this couple, their packet, just sung to me.
Speaker 3:I was like oh, I didn't see these people. Were they in your pile? No, they weren't in my pile, oh. And they said oh, we just got these people, so they wouldn't have been in your pile. And I'm just like you know, I couldn't put their packet down. I was so excited.
Speaker 2:I was like these are the people you know, you're you're crazy, you're second guessing, but what was there something special about them that just stuck out? Or I mean, all of these people are people that obviously are dying to have a child.
Speaker 3:Totally. Yeah, I don't know, I think it just it had a maybe like a magnetism to it. It had just like weird little in weird little things that just clicked for me Like their dog, reminded me of a dog that I had growing up and your gut was speaking to you. Yeah, I mean it was your intuition, Totally yeah totally.
Speaker 3:They're definitely meant to be her parents and they even talk about her mom, talks about, you know, feeling like she had to write the bio as soon as possible because there was a baby coming for her. I was like oh my god, timing couldn't have been better. Yeah, it worked out great.
Speaker 1:Cool, it was really cool yeah cool. There's lots of little magical idiosyncrasies so how far, yeah, how far along were you then, when you chose each other?
Speaker 3:um, I feel like, maybe, I have no idea. Um, well, she was born in november and I feel like it was maybe summertime, maybe, definitely, definitely picked by september.
Speaker 1:Um definitely by that time. And so what? What is that relationship like as you move? Once it's decided, I don't know much about, like an open adoption, so does she go to appointments with you, or what does that look like I?
Speaker 3:think it can go any way both parties agree to. But how it went for us was our first meeting was kind of like a counseling session where it's like a little bit of a meet and greet. Like I remember being so nervous like what if you? See them in the elevator. That would be so awkward. Yeah, like I, you know, it was nice to have the counselors there to introduce us, um, and then we went to dinner afterward and um yeah, and it was.
Speaker 3:It was really really just sweet um you know they're good, they're good people and felt right and it made sense emotionally and mentally and, yeah, then you know, I think, looking back, I think that the mom would have loved to been more brought into the fold of all of those appointments and everything and I, you know I have regrets about not doing that, but I also had a lot of people saying, hey, you're going to have this baby and you're going to be flooded with all these hormones and you're not going to know how you're going to feel.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I'm kind of an anxious person, so I really like held on to like I don't know what I'm going to feel like after I have this baby. Yeah, I was like I'm pretty sure I've made my choice and I feel very strong and certain and secure about what I'm doing here, but everyone kept telling me like well, it might change last minute, and it drove me bonkers.
Speaker 3:Because I was like it's weird to feel so sure about something and then everyone telling you you're going to change your mind or to at least be open to it.
Speaker 3:And I just Putting the second guesses in your, in your brain, yeah, and then start overthinking adoptive parents are definitely worried about that too, I believe they said they had a either a family member or friend of the family who went through open adoption and the biological mother chose to keep the baby last minute in the hospital and I mean I, I felt for her, her, and I felt like I in no way could say like that's definitely not going to happen. But I was like that's definitely not going to happen, like I just knew.
Speaker 2:But people people.
Speaker 3:I don't know there's, I think there's so many unknowns like birth, and you know, oh, everyone says you see your baby. It's going to be so magical and no you were.
Speaker 2:You were very, I wouldn't say nonchalant, but you were very much. You struck me there in the hospital as you were really comfortable with your decision you know and everything that you were were doing. So, yeah, well, let's talk about after you had the baby. Then how are you feeling?
Speaker 3:Good, I think that there was. It was. It was weird, obviously. So I had labor and did the whole thing and had the baby and then I made sure to take as much time as I could in the hospital and I think the maximum was like three or four days and knowing what I know now about birth and all that stuff, I'm glad I took that time. But the nurses, I think they knew what was going on and so they were extra helpful in just making sure that we were taken care of.
Speaker 3:We had a doula who actually the adoptive mom she had taken care of for us and picked out a doula for us and I know that the mom she was very against the idea of me breastfeeding because she felt like that would be kind of a pull for bonding and all these things.
Speaker 3:But then there was this doula who was like, well, this baby's best chance and it's great for your body and it's great for the baby, baby. And I'm like, well, the whole reason I'm doing this is for it to be great for the baby. So, like, why wouldn't I try to breastfeed, because I want her to have the best start in life possible so you know I was like okay, I'm kind of going against what you know mom wants, but I'm kind of also doing what this doula that she picked for me wanted.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of like ah, like this weird like yeah, I want to give the baby good things so did it feel weird to breastfeed her um, it didn't really like I.
Speaker 3:This happened with my daughter, who I have now the first time they feed. It's always so easy and then every time after that it is so frustrating because you're like it was so easy and then every time after that it is so frustrating because it was so easy the first time. What the heck Like we had this and it's just gone now.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I didn't get a lactation consultant or anything, but I think eventually we switched over to bottles because I was just like this is messy, this is frustrating, this is hard. But yeah, I just remember feeling like good about the time in the hospital and just I think that was less traumatic for all of us yeah just to kind of gently let go and there were tears, tears of course, yeah it was, it was hard.
Speaker 2:I think that moment.
Speaker 3:So you were with the baby for three days or four days or whatever like I think it was like maybe two or three full days in the hospital after birth, yeah, something like that. I think, like on the third day, um, the adoptive parents came and picked her up. Yeah, um, that was it was weird, um, you know you're, you're kind of go from being like the center of yeah when I see them it's like, oh, it's all me and me and the baby and yeah.
Speaker 3:Then it was kind of a little bit more like we just start here for the baby, yeah, yeah which is fair, I mean're. They've been waiting to have a child for so long. So I don't blame them, but it's just like I just remember having this like inner sense of like, oh okay, well, I guess I'm done here.
Speaker 2:Well, and there's the whole, the whole process as you know. Now with having a second one, you know that your body is going through so much afterward and the hormones and all of the things, and did you feel any regret right afterwards or when you're going through any of this process? You know where you're? I mean, your hormones are raging right.
Speaker 3:Maybe. Yeah, I mean, I was still. I was still coming off being a teenager.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my hormones were raging anyway, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I just remember being coming home from the hospital. I'm crawling into bed. You brought cookies, julie.
Speaker 1:Probably like the ones I just ate before we started here.
Speaker 3:I won't forget. Julie came by with cookies because it was in the hospital.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of energy lots of visitors, lots of friends.
Speaker 3:And then after the hospital it just gets quiet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I was just like thinking about it and, yeah, like every everything is unfolding as you wanted it to. But then at the same time, I'm sure there was a quiet moment of deep thought like yeah okay, now what?
Speaker 3:yeah, I remember taking like kind of a maternity leave from my work and I. I cut it early. I was just like I'm ready to go back.
Speaker 3:I don't have anything to sit around and do and having had, like, a child who I brought home from the hospital. Now it's like this is why you have maternity leave, because you're learning how to like feed them whichever way you're choosing to do that or your body allows you to do, and you're learning to sleep with this child who doesn't know how to sleep yet. So, like I was like I don't think I I didn't know at the time, but I know I know now I was like I definitely didn't need a maternity leave of but again I didn't know how I was gonna feel so right, yeah, could be different for others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean longer and more emotional. Yeah, it takes your body a while to.
Speaker 2:Yeah kind of get back into some sense of like feeling normal and and then there's the whole potential problem of postpartum. You know, it doesn't matter if you have the baby there or not have the baby there. You have all those hormones and you could potentially have gone into something like that. So there's a lot of things to think about Totally, and the level of support would maintain the same. Did you go back to your dad's or did you go to your mom's or?
Speaker 3:I went back to my dad's. Okay, I don't remember if I started going back and forth again between their two homes, but I think I was at that point. I was almost 19. And I just remember being like I don't want to go back and forth between two homes.
Speaker 1:I want to be in one spot, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I believe I hunkered down with my dad even more at that point. Yeah, I think you know there's. It's weird because even I think when you, when you have a baby, you go from going to the doctor, especially at the end, it almost feels like once a week. And then I had, I had all this counseling like all the time and you know everything. Not everything stopped, but like after the baby was born I was like, Okay, I think I went to the doctor maybe twice that whole year. After I think I went to the counselor. Maybe, you know it maybe was more, I can't really recall that one or two times after and it's just, everybody just gets back to life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they just get back to normal life you know, and it's just you don't go back to normal, you don't go back to how things were before.
Speaker 2:No, that's why I'm asking. I'm like the trajectory of your life. Obviously you had kind of made some really, really tough decisions and you knew what direction you wanted to go and you're pretty steadfast on that. So now everything's getting back to normal. Is it a sense of relief that you can move on to that next chapter, or were you feeling that you were missing something? Or do you remember?
Speaker 3:What I do remember was planning a trip, because the biological father and I we stayed in a relationship the whole time for the pregnancy and we planned a New Year's trip to San Francisco together. And I think, you know, definitely looking back and thinking about hormones yeah, I was not back to normal, but I was trying to be. Yeah, you know, I was trying to like, okay, let's go enjoy the life that we have because we don't have a baby. And so we planned a trip and it just it didn't go well. We came back and we broke up immediately.
Speaker 3:So and then I think a lot of my sad feelings and big emotions were about the breakup, and were there probably more emotions about the experience that I had wrapped in that? Maybe, but that's not what I identified them as.
Speaker 2:At the time, I probably was a lot stronger you kind of thought that was inevitable, though right Were you trying to like stay together?
Speaker 3:I don't know what I was thinking. I think that I think we loved each other. I think I loved him. I knew I didn't want to start a family with him yet, but I don't really know what the plan was there. But, yeah, I just yeah. We broke up after that and I remember having bigger, sadder feelings about the breakup and it probably was compounded by by the other stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so how do you feel about everything now? The little girl is not a little girl anymore. She's going to be 17.
Speaker 3:Yep, she'll be 17. November, okay. So, yeah, that's pretty wild. You know, we haven't stayed in touch as much as I think I initially pictured that being. You know, when I made the choice, I was like, oh, I'm just gonna like be in her life and I'll be like a weird aunt of sorts. You know, like I'll be this other character and it's been more regimented time with her than that.
Speaker 3:Like her parents ended up moving to Hawaii and then they moved to Canada and and that happened, I think, all before she was like four and six and so pretty early on, which she's had a great life. Um, you know, we keep in touch on social media her mom and I more than she and I but I remember one of the times visiting her and she was probably starting to get to like I don't know, maybe eight, nine, 10, like in that range, and she I just remember her just like saying something about being like a weird kid in school, like, oh, like other kids get to do this when they get home from school. Other kids get to like eat health, like they were only allowed to eat healthy food and they didn't get to have a lot of screen time at her house, which these are all great things.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I wish I was good at enforcing with my own. But you know so I commend her parents like immensely, so it's not a it would not be a dig on them. But you know so I commend her parents like immensely, so it's not it would not be a dig on them. But you know, she was just feeling othered and different and kind of getting to those fragile years where being different is not a good thing and that's starting early too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that I think she had started in her life. It sounded like she started being proud of being adopted, like that was something that she was very proud of until one day at school somebody asked her how much her parents paid for her, and then it became like a dagger and I, just so I was like I kept getting all these signals where it's like you know, I don't need to be all up in her face, all up in her life, reminding her of something that she's maybe doesn't need to process right now. Like she has two parents, right? If she wants to ask me anything, of course I'm an open door. Do I know how to like say that to her?
Speaker 2:no, but well, have you said that to her parents?
Speaker 3:I her, I think her parents know, yeah, I think, and they've they've always been like. Even like after I had my daughter, her mom reached out and was like hey, if you ever, you know, want anything communication wise or whatever, um, so that your daughter knows her sister.
Speaker 3:That's always felt supported, but it's kind of one of those things where it's not necessary for anyone's well being. If I knew for a fact it was adding to her sense of well being and her sense of self, I would be there all day long. Yeah, but because I'm not sure if, how painful it is, of a reminder for her, I don't really want to like push myself into the into the mix.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it might not be painful, it just might be kind of confusing you know I would imagine, especially now, as she's gotten older, there's, I guarantee you, in the next few years there's going to be the knock on your door and she's going to want all the deets, more than likely, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I, and I welcome that day, if and when it comes. But, you know I don't expect. I mean, I've heard there's so many different people who've been adopted and I hear their stories and there's so many different ways that people who have been adopted feel about their biological parents and a lot of them are indifferent you know, and I'm okay with that.
Speaker 3:like, do I prefer it? No, like the more the merrier. That's how I am with my life, but I'm not gonna say what I want is important in this mix, because that's that wasn't the point. I mean at some level it was the point, but like, not anymore. I made the choice to do that, so like why should I have a right to say how it goes from this point forward?
Speaker 2:Like I gave up that control. Yeah, and you did it very well, unselfishly really, because you've got this little girl who's she's got a family, she's got a great life, and I haven't been in that circumstance before. But that's got to feel really good to you Because you know that the decision you made has put her in a place where she's thriving.
Speaker 3:I mean no no I don't know. I think it's just like sometimes things are like meant to go a certain way, or you make a choice and then they go a certain way, and I don't know. I feel more like I'm grateful that I didn't have to start my family behind the finish line or the starting line, like so far back.
Speaker 3:I didn't have to start from the bottom. I got a lot out of it too, and so I don't feel like it was this like selfless thing that I did this good thing and I feel the glow of doing something good for someone else because I got a lot out of it. You benefited too, sure, yeah, and not to say that I recognize it as an entirely selfish decision, but it's complicated.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:You know, and it's like one of those things where it's like that happened. That's part of my story, that's part of my past and, you know, maybe it'll weave into the future at some point.
Speaker 2:that'd be kind of cool, but I don't know, it's just, it's just gonna sit there right now and ruminate, yeah, yeah. So if you, if you were to have a message for young girls out there right now, girls that are at that age where they're starting to experience sexual contact with people, or potential sexual contact with people, what kind of a message would you maybe have for those girls and for their parents, knowing the circumstances that you ended up in with the decisions that you were making, and they've turned out good, it sounds like all the way around, but are there any specific thoughts that you would have that you could share? That might be helpful.
Speaker 3:I don't have a teenager, so I don't think I could speak from the vantage point of a parent. Kids are going to do what they want to do, like once they get to a certain age and once they have access to cars and a key. I think, you know, never preaching the abstinence-only kind of message is helpful, because I think that message got mixed in at some point with my family and so I didn't know, I didn't know my mom ever had sex before she was married.
Speaker 2:And I know you know my mom really well she was an angel.
Speaker 3:So I don't know, I just I think that maybe if in the right family and the right context you know being open about your own experience with your children, or being open with them about anything can happen and and it's okay if it does this is how you can avoid all that nonsense. You know, just having those conversations, even when they're if and when they're uncomfortable but, yeah, life is going to happen sometimes too.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, well, I mean, it is uncomfortable. You see, parents now I mean talking about sex with kids is it's like we didn't even get those conversations really, you know, you're going to have conversations with your daughter and probably other kids maybe down the road too, but it's like you're in a different place in your life, you're in a different generation. I think that there's a lot more conversation that takes place around some of these topics that nobody really has wanted to talk about, and to me it seems like if you were in a position where not you personally, but just in general where a child is not going to feel the judgment or feel like they are going to be shamed or treated poorly or whatever that they're going to be more likely to reach out for help. Now, will they?
Speaker 2:I don't know, you know, I think it depends on the, it depends on the family. There might be an aunt or someone else that they would go to if they needed help. But just having someone that they, you know, can talk to, I think would make a big difference, especially if they're younger. You know, there's there's other issues to not just the teen pregnancy by choice, but obviously teen pregnancy can take place through other methods too, you know, through rape or through incest and things, and that's a whole nother conversation that we haven't even touched on, obviously, here. But there's a lot of factors that play into those decisions, you know, for people, Based on you know, you telling your story and thank you so much for sharing.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of big stuff. What and I know Julie just kind of asked this question, but maybe for anyone considering open adoption like, what are your? Obviously you had a good experience, but for anybody that doesn't really know, do you have any words of wisdom?
Speaker 3:or advice yeah, if you're doing open adoption, truly be open. I mean, once that baby's born, that relationship's going to go a number of different ways, and be ready to relinquish the control over what that's going to look like. Every family that goes through that experience is going to treat it differently. Not only be open to having a relationship with your child, but be open to whatever experience is going to treat it differently. Not only be open to having a relationship with your child, but be open to whatever experience is going to be most appropriate given the different dynamics. Yeah, yeah, so if you're doing it, be you know, be aware that it might not look like exactly what you envision, just like anything in life.
Speaker 1:I would imagine what I hear there when you say that is maybe holding back from having certain expectations of what the outcomes are going to be, but just really be open to the journey.
Speaker 3:Yeah, be open to the journey, and that's whether you choose to parent or do open adoption or have an abortion like be open to the journey. That's life baby. So yeah, that is life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so talking about that, you know the laws have. This last year has been pretty amazing when you look at a lot of the changes that have happened in our world and Roe v Wade getting overturned, which you know has been in place for decades now. Do you have any thoughts on these changes or how you kind of envision this happening just from your perspective as a millennial and someone who has been through these experiences before having your own child? Now, what do you, what do you kind of see from your generation?
Speaker 3:For me and my experience, I'm definitely I'm pro abortion, like I wouldn't change the path that I had taken. But I don't think that's something most people have a good enough support system to go through and come out the other side without some severe emotional damage or I don't know. Like it's so, so complicated. Just coming to earth and being a human is really, really hard. And you know, my biggest takeaway with overturning Roe is it's not just people who you know, had a teen pregnancy and they don't want to go through with it. This is affecting people who really, really want to have kids and it's taking away their future reproductive health. It's taking away their safety to stay on Earth and raise the children that they already had. It's taking away more than just oh, this girl got knocked up and now she's trying to use this as birth control. It's like that's the thing that people love to focus on.
Speaker 3:the issue with and what's coming out with Overturning Row is we're seeing all the nuance that we have not had to deal with for the last, however long this has been a law, like my sister's, a midwife and one of her girls from her cohort works in Idaho and I'm just like, oh my God.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 3:That's terrifying Because I mean, she's a, she's a birth worker and if something happens and this child, the baby that's growing inside, happens, and this child, the baby that's growing inside it doesn't develop properly or whatever, there's just regular medication to take care of that, so that the woman doesn't bleed out. I just it's so shocking to me because we haven't had to deal with these problems because the doctors could just administer what they needed to administer, but because we feel that this girl should suffer for her sins. All these other people are losing access to basic medical care yeah it's wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's wild. Do you feel like there should be government involvement in all this stuff, or do you think it should be between the no I?
Speaker 3:mean the government, you, you know it's so ironic because I think, you know, didn't it be used to be? Republicans were keep the government off, out of out of it, you know, like let's have less government. And it's really ironic that we're sitting in this position where their most hyper-politicalized point is about controlling the government, controlling people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's your reproductive system.
Speaker 3:It's it's kind of mind blowing. Surprising maybe not, but yeah, yeah mind blowing. It doesn't. It doesn't really seem like it lines up with, like traditional Republican values. But yeah, it should be between a woman and her doctor. Yeah, because if you don't allow it to be between a woman and her doctor, it'll be between a woman and her own dark thoughts.
Speaker 1:So right, yeah, I love that. Like I said, I just want to say thank you again for being on on the episode with us here and being willing to share your story, Because I love listening to the other side. These are stories that don't get told often because people aren't so willing to put it out there. You know, with it being the experience that you had and you know fast forward, you have thrived. You now are married, you have a little girl and you're able to I'm sure you've been able to learn through and brought into your relationships that you have now a little bit what you learned through that journey that you have been through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, and now you have a daughter. I know who's very much like her mother, hi, and you're going to be having those conversations. It'll be interesting to see, 10 years from now, nine years, whatever nine years from now, whenever you decide to have conversations with her about things. You know what those are going to look like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she's just gonna hang out with Auntie Haley who is the midwife and used to do like pure health stuff at the college, like go talk to your aunt. She's seen it all, she's heard it all. I don't know You'll be more comfortable for all of us Well.
Speaker 2:I so appreciate you coming on here. I know Michelle does too. Thank you so much for taking the time away from your little to come spend with us.
Speaker 1:And, hey, everybody, just remember to find us out on all the socials YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, all of them and thank you for all the downloads we've been getting, and just a reminder to do that too. Yeah, as long as you're checking us out, remember to download.
Speaker 2:Yeah, another download.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, on that note, we'll chat with you later.
Speaker 1:Have a good week, you guys.
Speaker 2:Bye, bye.